Lately, there has been much controversy over the upcoming movie- The Golden Compass, based on a fantasy novel by Philip Pullman who is a self-declared athesist.
He is well-quoted for his great disdain of God and the Christian faith. In support of his contention, Pullman was quoted in one interview saying: “I’m trying to undermine the basis of Christian belief.”
The truth always stands
Personally, I do not have much comments on either Pullman’s views on God or his movie as everyone is entitled to his/her views just as much we would expect others to respect our Christian views or beliefs.
End of the day, it is not about who’s right or wrong (though we believe in one Truth) but it is about God and winning people over to Him by washing people’s feet and not “bible bashing”, just as Jesus did.
Without a doubt, I am sure all this controversy is generated just to create buzz for the movie in order to hit box office numbers.
In any case, this movie actually works for the Christian faith as it creates opportunity for us to share what is truth to the curious minds.
The real emerging threats
Just when we think that the “enemies” that threathens the Christian faith are from the outside, but in true fact, the real threats are from within.
I have observed that today’s contemporary Church faces two serious “threats” that are emerging and eroding the core foundation of the Christian faith. They are the acceptance of homosexuality as biblically right and the prosperity gospel.
(1) Homosexuality:
The recent attempts of re-appealing against 377A were clear indications of what the Church can expect in the near future.
If you didn’t follow the news, you may view an Al Jazeera TV news report here>>>
Already in some parts of the world, same-sex marriages are accepted and made legal. And slowly and surely, homosexuality gaining more entry into the Church.
Some time ago, Tim Flemming published a new bible which adds a new law that embraces homosexuality as biblical. And it is made available for free download.
In Singapore, Free Community Church openly declares its acceptance of homosexuality as shown below:
The FREE COMMUNITY CHURCH affirms that all individuals are persons of sacred worth and created in God’s image. Given the discrimination that Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgendered (LGBT) persons still face in society, our Church affirms that same-sex relationships are consistent with Christian faith and teachings, when lived out in accord with the love commandments of Jesus. Instead, it is discrimination based on sexual orientation and homophobia that are inconsistent with Christian teachings. We welcome all LGBT persons to our family.
Thankfully, this remains marginalised from mainstream Christianity as it is outright clear that homosexuality is unbiblical.
And the biblical stand remains: Hate the sin and love the sinner.
(2) Prosperity Gospel:
However the same can’t be said of the prosperity gospel as it seeps mainly into our mainstream, which is even more dangerous as it invades the minds and hearts of our majority.
Moreover so, the message is subtle and is packaged in such a rational manner that it is not that easy to detect what is exactly unbiblical.
From my previous entry on this topic, today’s preachers proclaim that poverty is a curse, and that Jesus came to break that curse with support of selected scriptures to convince their audiences.
Firstly, poverty is not a curse. Poverty is the consequence of the hoarding of wealth in the world from the poor. It is NOT a curse.
If we recall Job from the bible, he did not spiral down towards poverty because he was cursed. In fact, he was found to be righteous in the eyes of God and his poverty and poor health were actually tests laid before him. And of cos, Job passed those tests with flying colours.
What about Mother Theresa? Was she cursed? I think not. She chose to be poor, but yet she was equally effective in serving the poor.
Secondly, Jesus did not come to free people from poverty. If He did, He would have been born in a tycoon family and be a rich man’s son. But instead, he was a carpenter. And in one of satan’s temptations, He would have accepted satan’s offer for all the world’s riches and gave it to us if that was really true. But He didn’t.
Jesus came and went to the cross. His purpose was to redeem us from our sins not poverty; that we may have eternal life.
Keep watch, be on our guard
With our government always fixed on economic prosperity with our nation’s GDP, and the ocassional challenge for us to work hard and gain financial security, this message of prosperity taps on our” 5 Cs” culture. And if a preacher comes along and says, “God wants you to be rich,” is quite appealing.
Even most multi-level marketing (MLM) organisations practise this. Their leaders would motivate their team to strike it rich first in order to gain financial freedom. And with that freedom, you can help others with your money by donating to the poor and build schools or hospitals etc…
As most of us develop our Christianity along the lines of our nature and not along the lines of God’s nature, therefore we need to be watchful not to follow the drum beat of our culture about the goodness of personal wealth and material prosperity.
Instead, we need to be rooted in His word and advocate a theology of stewardship which puts other people’s necessities before our own luxuries. We also need to simplify our lifestyles and get a clear grasp on God’s priorities including His special concern for the poor and destitute of the world.
Even if we aim to succeed in the marketplace, it should be aligned with a motivation of wanting to be an influence to others for God, and not for worldy wealth.
If our position of influence provides access to wealth, then it is God who blesses us in order that we can be a blessing to others for His kingdom and not for self-indulgence.
Andrew: Inside & Insights 
I actually gave one these churches a try once. Or twice. Tried contacting one of their leaders here in my country. But something or make that Someone deep in me is saying quite otherwise.
When I tried to look for the presence of God in their meetings I can’t seem to find it. Sure, there is acceptance or so it seemed. But without the power of God in the meetings, what difference does it have from the Rotary Club or the Jaycees?
Oh, how we need the power of God permeating our churches today!
By a fictional story, can undermine the basis of Christian belief. I don’t think is possible.
The Christian belief have been around for numbers of century – even before he was born.
For me, I am not interested in people who are eager to go the “wide gate”.
But at the same, it is another time to verify Christian belief again ever since Da Vinci’s code.
If this thing never happen, nobody ask.
For Hollywood-wise, they make movies pro-Christian or against Christian; in the utmost is all about making money.
If something like this can shake your faith, most probably they are the people who alway look back on their past, on the world but not on God. God don’t need fair-weather friends. Either you are for Him or you are against Him.
No one who looks back is fit for the Kingdom of God – Luke 9:62
For Gay/Lesbian, God love them but He did not let them carry on like that. I thought in the ending book of Bible claimed that nothing shall be taken, nothing shall be added to the Bible. But on the soft side, I can see they have some emotional problems within them.
I think hurts must be voice up; you cannot cut yourself deep on your leg in order to make yourself feel better on the wound in your hand. You ended up getting two cuts. Sweep things in the carpet won’t help.
For Poverty-wise, poverty is a curse or not, I don’t know. But I know that it is a mindset. If you alway think of poverty and poor, you stuck with it. But if you tell yourself, I am broke and have no money at the present now; you still got a fighting chance to be rich. For the poverty-thinking people, they have sent themselves to “wealth” death sentence.
In doing everything, one must be true himself, if one cannot be true to himself how can he be true to the invisible God?
Faith without action is dead. But from another point of view doing too more is faithless. Trust on yourself to do more, rely yourself rather than God. In the parable of the lost son, the young son was obvious faithless when he eager want his inheritance without any work. But the elder son worked his way to get what he want, when his father say, that all are his.In the faither’s point of view, both are faithless, he told his elder son off (in modern language is you are not better). So what is faith, find out yourself… 😛
Something to add, maybe the author of the Golden Compass want to be famous (stir up conversation to boost his fame), so he claimed to be anti-Christian. This type of slogan always worked. Maybe he say that, after that he was at home praying to Jesus that nothing happen to him.
http://sg.news.yahoo.com/afp/20071210/tts-us-crime-assault-972e412.html
Some shootings happened in Colorado, involves Ted Haggard of New Life Church.
I dont know very much. I just want to serve god. All I know is of late, I seem to see the world clearer. I used to pay out quiet alot to my church, but recently I have been reading alot and I figured out that there is something wrong when money is everything, so I have stopped going to this mega cult church and I have gone back to my parish.
I dont think, I am the only one that sense deep inside my heart of hearts, something is very wrong when a church goes into the real estate development business and tries to sell it as the will of God.
They just want to get rich, go ahead I say, but its not going to be at my expense. I am a free man.
I agreed that there are a lot of money-face church, they care more about money than the soul. The first, they ask is not of the well-being of that person, instead they ask about tithe and offering. I never tithe and offering is not good. But by placing in the foreground, there is something wrong. A stranger who come to know God will feel this way – they are more interest in my money and my salvation. I once I was in the small seminar, I still remember the speaker say, if everyone are full time in the church then they will be not have pay. I think that correct way shall if everyone full time in the church, the church cannot be sustain. Too often they are self-center. Some more they are not Levite, they have not claim to such things. According to Bible, only Levite can received tithes. Not forgetting the King of Salem. If they are not Levite or King of Salem, I don’t think they have the right to be demand for it. In this era, tithes must be given more of a free will since they have the right to collect – I mean the divine right when God given the commandment to Israel that they must pay tithes to Levite.
I will like to make a correction.
In this era, tithes must be given more of a free will since they “don’t” have the right to collect – I mean the divine right when God given the commandment to Israel that they must pay tithes to Levite.
Some more they come up with various tithes that are not appear in the Bible, I thought nothing shall be added to the Bible, nothing shall be substracted from the Bible.
I have heard of festival tithes, but I never heard of business tithes.
In the Gospels, Jesus have never say, anything about tithes. From this point of view, tithes are out of free-will, out of the greatfulness of God.
Abraham and Jacob give tithes to God for God’s protection and provision.
King David give tithes to God for God’s protection and his victory against his enemy.
Freely you receive, freely you give, that will unload most of the unnecessary bundle that people put on you.
I saw a lot of people, even they tithes – they give unwilling. God is no beggar, if you do want to give, don’t give.
God only want your love and obednience – that will be much easy.
Sorry again,
if you do want to give, don’t give.
Shall be
if you don’t want to give, don’t give.
in the first place, nobody really tithes money in the old testament. the meaning of the tithe is spiritual. if jesus affirms the tithe, he is affirming the spiritual aspect that the tithe in which it represents, not the literal, ritual or legal practice. having said that, all laws of the OT have been superseded by the law of love. as regard to giving, it falls under charity or alms. as for supporting the parish, it is a community issue. there is no laws governing that and if you go by the heroes of the book of acts, they had more spine than todays worldly leaders in the guise of ‘spiritual leaders’ ripping off gullible followers.
the other good point you have made is “Poverty is the consequence of the hoarding of wealth in the world from the poor”.
there are two kinds of wealth created in the world. the actual wealth is produced by the poor or laborers. but when this ‘wealth’ is sucked into the monetary or the capitalistic system, it created a ‘multi level marketing’ wealth/properity system for the elites where the CEO or the business man at the top of the pyramid enjoy most of the wealth from the bottom.
what the apostate church does today is, they inducted their followers into THE ‘MLM’ system. this system is not part of the kingdom of God. it is the kingdom of this fallen world that rules through mammon. if you follow the prosperity teachings, you become part of the world system or kingdom, not God’s Kingdom.
and the love of money is the root of ALL evil. in other words, all evil can be ultimately traced to the love of money. and there is no greater love for money than the capitalist. the capitalist believes that the entrepreneur or the businessman’s way is THE WAY out of poverty and is your salvation. well, jesus said that he is THE WAY.
and what that WAY is, you need to figure out. it is certainly not the way of the world which the mega churches are leading you!
lastly,
Cityrat & XXX:
I am with you guys on your sentiments in regards how some churches (with the stories we read on the media) are questionable with their financial governance. However, to tithe still remains a command from God just as to love, even our enemies is a command.
Our true obedience to God needs to be practise beyond circumstances (as much as we can) with His grace.
If the church that we attend seems to be walking inconsistent with the ways of God in the aspect of financial governance or stewardship, we as “laymen” do have a right (out of His love) to approach our leaders and clarify any doubts.
True accountability is not just down-up but up-down and down-up. Everybody is inter-linked in the Church, we are His Body. We are all accountable to God including and especially the leaders.
Therefore, in whatever circumstances we need to maintain peace and uphold unity among the Body as the first priority. Cos it breaks the heart of God when He sees His family divided. And the Church loses its power and credibility to preach the good news to the world.
So no matter what, do try to reconcile within the Body and obey our Lord by faith in His word that is truth and the authority.
Practically, if you are still not comfortable about tithing in the church that you should (after discussing with the leaders) pray for God to lead you to another church where you can commit yourself fully and grow.
In regards to the church going into real estate development, my opinion is that we should take a balanced and sound approach.
First, His Will is always about investing in people not real estate. Therefore if the latter becomes the priority, then it is wrong. But if it is like our charities where social enterprise is encouraged to create jobs and generate revenue to fund operations and welfare for beneficiaries, then I do not think it is wrong.
However, in such an approach, I think the pastors should not be heading such enterprises or businesses. Cos they should remember their main role is to feed His flock and this helps them in living above reproach by avoiding any unnecessary scandals.
I think a good recent example is when PM Lee stepped down as Finance Minister for Mr Tharman to take helm of MOF. That move helps to minimise any unnecessary relations of Temasek Holdings (who’s headed by his wife) with our government, and allows Temasek to go about to do its business above reproach.
Though this is a political example, the principles of leadership and accountability are the same; and both are roles of a servant to serve their people.
get a life.
I think that one of the biggest threats to the Singapore church is how it has lost sight of the Gospel and is waging a crusade against homosexuals. I personally support every single thing that Jesus had to say about homosexuals and about those who show off their religion and those who oppress the poor etc. Read Matt 23 and see how much of it applies to us (myself included) in the Singapore church. Then ask yourself why we are so eager to persecute our homosexual brothers and sisters…….
Hi, on the issue of tithing,
I agree that tithe should be given to God out of greatfulness to God. And that God wants our love and obedience.
However, tithing is an act of obedience to God.
I’m not sure bout the Levites stuffs, but we can do a bible study on that. What I know is that Levites are people appointed by God to take care of His temple.
Hence the present day pastors, ministers or staffs are the Levites of today??
Lev 27:30, 32
30 ” ‘A tithe of everything from the land, whether grain from the soil or fruit from the trees, belongs to the LORD; it is holy to the LORD.
32 The entire tithe of the herd and flock—every tenth animal that passes under the shepherd’s rod—will be holy to the LORD.
Other verses from OT:
1 Chro 29:13-14
Mal 3:10-12
Exo23:19
Deut 12:11
Prov 3: 9-10
From the NT, some of the verses quoted for tithing, or the principle is here:
1 Cor 16:2 On the first day of every week, each one of you should set aside a sum of money in keeping with his income..
2 Cor 8:5 They first gave themselves to the Lord..
If someone can enlighten me or answer the questions/comments posted above would be great.
Hey people, looks like an exciting forum in here. I wonder if you all know one another? Interesting viewpoints… So here I am to join in with my two cents worth! 🙂
Regarding Tithing:
It is true that the tithe in OT is understood as a tenth. In fact, I think the word ten is derived from the word tithe, which is derived from some historic word representing ten. Whoever’s the one with more time, or interest for that matter can check out more about that.
Everyone in the OT period knew what tithing was. What was required was simple and straightforward. In the NT however, we can see how tithing was still common (Matt 23:23). We also see in the later part of the verse that what JESUS is about is more than that. NT has no stipulations that we can find wbout the exact amount. It is up to our conviction and faith as to the amount that we want to honour GOD with.
What I do is portion out the first 10% of my earnings, not because whoever told me I have to give a 10%, but that is just a simple measurement by which I weigh a certain percentage as an honour to GOD. And I try my very best to give as soon as I can, if not I can’t really call it my firstfruits of honour to GOD. NT “tithing” is not just about a 10% or whatever, but it is about a GOD-honouring life. And this honouring is inspired by having received the love and grace from GOD. You can’t help but give to the person you love. In this case, it is so sacred – the two way giving relationship between GOD and man. Not just in terms of money, but in what JESUS is all about. (Refer to Matthew 23:23 again)
So I say, it is up to us to give as our heart wills. Whatever percentage or amount and in our giving, be cheerful and trust GOD. GOD’s nature is that HE doesn’t keep things for HIMSELF too. He gives us back in various of ways. There are people who tithe more than 10%. Some i heard, even 90% (they must be very rich! Haha). But the focus is not the amount, but the heart, the faith, the trust, the honour, the gratitude of who GOD is in our lives.
I’ve gotta go meet a friend right now, but I’d love to come back later with more of my thoughts and heart. Hope we can all get to interact more and with the right spirit, I think we can all learn a great deal from one another. As the saying goes, “iron sharpens iron”… But hey, don’t use that sharpened iron to “kill” anyone! Other than, with GOD, to slay the untruth from the evil one!
Tithing is Unscriptural Under the New Covenant-Fraudulent Fleecing of the Flock
Many people believe this doctrine;
“Tithing was a form of worship to God, and since we still worship God, we must still tithe.”
I will answer this one in one sentence: Since burnt offerings were a form of worshiping God, and since we still worship God, must we still offer burnt offerings to God? Ridiculous.
“Will a man ROB God?” How many untold tens of thousands of men will give account one day for teaching this verse in Malachi 3:8 totally out of context for their own sordid gain. I couldn’t count the times I have heard self-appointed ministers of the gospel berate their congregations and listeners for “robbing God” in tithes and offerings.
This verse in Malachi certainly means what it says. Someone was defrauding God of tithes and offerings, but wait until you find out who it is that God blames for this act.
On any given Sunday morning there will be numerous men-of-the-cloth who will be bellowing out over the air waves that people are being “cursed with a curse” because they have failed to pay God ten percent of their paychecks. And should such a gullible listener decide to repent and give God ten percent of his salary, just how does he do that? Just keep listening, these men of the cloth who often have unquenchable worldly desires of the flesh, will be sure to give you an address where you can send them (or, ah, rather God) your tithe. Do they have a right to quote these Scriptures to you in this manner? No they do not, and furthermore they themselves know better.
SOME SHOCKING TRUTHS ABOUT THE CHRISTIAN TITHING DOCTRINE
– Abraham never tithed on his own personal property or livestock.
– Jacob wouldn’t tithe until God blessed him first.
– Only Levite priests could collect tithes, and there are no Levite priests today.
– Only food products from the land were tithable.
– Money was never a titheable commodity.
– Christian converts were never asked to tithe anything to the Church.
– Tithing in the Church first appears centuries after completion of the Bible.
A warning to all charlatans and would-be tithe extractors and collectors: There is NO temple of God being officiated in Jerusalem today. There is NO Levitic priesthood to officiate at such a temple. There is NO NEED for such a temple or priesthood at this time. Only Levites could collect tithes at the temple.
Therefore, EVERYONE collecting tithes today is a charlatan and a fake.
2Co 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
2Co 11:15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
ministers of righteousness are everywhere. they sit at the TOP of the hierarchy of temples or what have you
Gibson Prophecy
2004 02 8.1
My true church is not a denomination, but rather it is My people gathering into a localcongregation with a name that represents the local area. Beyond this is sin. For if one creates a division with Christ, one creates a division of My people which is wickedness.
2004 02 8.2
Thus saith the Lord. Those churches who are truly not part of division-making shall be blessed by Me. Those churches who will not stand as a true and separate church from divisions (denominations) shall be removed.I will not longer have divisions within My body. They shall be removed.I will do this in the coming years.
2004 03 27.1
How many people, says the Lord, have I called out of My church to begin a teaching of My power? They should have been able to learn this within the church, but they could not because the church has preached against My power!
I said in My Word, that you shall do greater miracles than I did [John 14:12] Why is this not seen? Because the church preaches worldly man-made power and not Godly power through fasting and prayer!!
2004 04 23.1
There are many who walk in pride in the church thinking that they are someone important who will be used in the coming revival. But no! I will use the humble ones who are not part of the great organized man-made church. For the man-made man-organized church will not partake of what is to come. For what is to come must come through the unhindered move of the Holy Spirit. Anything else would taint the move of God. So says the Lord God.
2004 04 28.1
Thus saith the Lord. Here in this earth people have a pride and a will to control what they perceive to be there’s__that is, they wish to control “their church.” But it is My church, saith the Lord. It is Mine. I bought and paid for it with My Blood. They are to serve Me, not themselves!
So therefore, remember to bow down and serve the King of Kings. Do not be concerned about the workings of the church, for I have that under control. Do concern yourself with what I wish you to do for Me.
Remember that all are called to witness and be a light wherever they go. Remember that I wish to control My church with those that I call to various ministries. Do not be dismayed that so many have gone astray after their own lusts in “owning their church.” It has always been this way and it will always be this way until I return. For I
will return and set all things right.
Now remember to serve Me and not be concerned about the evils within the church,for I will take care of them in My way. Remember to not fight against your brothers in the Lord, even if they are so obviously wrong. Remember to love them and by that love lead them into the truth, for it is by love that you can most serve Me.
Now put aside petty differences between you and all others. Remember to serve Me with love and to go out of your way to help others. So says the Lord.
2004 07 6.1
The church has tried to make things complicated when they are simple. Faith is simple.Miracles are simple. Salvation is simple. But those who study are always looking for the complex. Cry before God. Make straight your paths. Stand and defend God’s Word. Do not compromise. These things are simple.
2004 07 16.1
For thus saith the Lord. My power is blowing through the church. It will burn with fire all things. Those that stand on the Word in truth shall remain. Those that stand in the power of this earth shall be brought down.
No more shall sin enter at the door. I will prevent this by My power, saith the Lord.
With a new and bold church I will enter these last days with power. No more worldliness in the church. My power shall flow as it once did when I left this earth.
Those things that remain from the fire I will take out of the financial institutions that dares call itself “church” and I will build again My people.
So says the Lord of all.
2004 10 17.1
Thus saith the Lord. Prayer is the answer to all things christian. A christian is only as strong as his prayer life. A church is only as strong as the prayer of the people. Without hours of prayer you cannot walk a truly christian walk. Without hours of prayer you cannot walk in the power of the Holy Spirit.
Here I am again!
As I read all that’s here, I wonder how GOD would look at it all. I imagine JESUS sitting in the midst of us, listening to all that everyone’s got to say, what would HE say? Would we be saying all we’re saying with the exact same words and the exact same attitudes?
I think, the first HE would look at would not be the words but whether HIS spirit is in each of us. Like how HE answered the Pharisees, have never been to their speech, but HIS answers aimed at their hearts – the heart of the issues.
– Do we honour GOD in monetarily measurable ways and are we consistent with giving generously? (I’m not talking about 10% or because someone screams that if we don’t, we are damned or something) As it is, I do not believe in force-giving.
– Do we offer our service (be it our time, talents, going that extra mile, etc) to one another as well as non-Christians?
– When we give a criticism, is it motivated by love that is from GOD? Or anger/resentment? Have we tried to understand first? Did we bring the person (even if he is a pastor) aside and ask him to explain (with relevant scriptural context) what he preached which didn’t go down too well with us? Did we pursue GOD to bring us to understanding? Or are we just smug slamming?
– Are we being humble and constructive in our approach to right things which we preceive as wrong? Sometimes, we think we are so smart, but we ain’t know nothin’ really. We have all got to revisit how CHRIST does it. Do we want to stay together or are we divisive? Do we trust GOD that HE will not leave injustice to flourish?
– Do we spread the love of GOD to others, and honour GOD through our speech, actions, possessions, and life? Basically, everything we’ve got?
We all want to put a smile on GOD’s face. While we are doing that, let’s not have the wrong crowd (i.e. the devil and his gang) laughing instead :p We are not fighting flesh and blood, even if some Christians look more like they belong to the “other kind”, they are not our targets! Let’s focus on GOD and rightly so, with prayer and guided actions, GOD will surely bring HIS will to pass, HE never fails in doing that 🙂
#1894. Prophecy given to Raymond Aguilera on 4 December 2006 at 2:36 AM
Yes Reymundo, here it comes; the climate! It is going to change radically. Some of it is going to come very slowly, at other times it is going to come rapidly. The oceans are going to go up and come down; it is going to hit the land with forces that are going to kill people. The earth is going to shake, buildings are going to fall, people are going to die. These disturbances are going to be caused by the Spiritual world. It is part of the cleaning-up act. Places are going to get cold. Places are going to get hot. The old and the young are going to suffer. There are going to be power failures around the world, so strong ones that are going to shock people.
Some of the things that are going to happened are going be caused by man. Oil prices, the ability to get oil are going to be manipulated by certain people. These radicals don’t care about life. They care about certain principles in their religion. They don’t care who they hurt, who they kill. But the weather is going to change. Birth pains, Reymundo, birth pains! I understand that certain people of this world think they can rule by taking things into their own hands. They think they are clever. They think they are working in secret. It might not be believable, but the Lord Jesus Christ, Jehovah God, the Holy Spirit let certain things happen. That is all part of the plan. What is wrong will fall. What is stated in the Bible will come to be, exactly to the point.
People need to read the Bible because they will get an idea of the changing times, changing weather, the change and the evil that is before the planet. There is going to be a lot of confusion. People are not going to know what to do. How to do it! A lot of fear, a lot of anger, a lot of frustration, that is why the Body of Christ has to band together, make themselves strong, help each other, stop the fighting, the bickering, the finger pointing. You have to band together in Love.
It is hard, because the Body of Christ has not been shown by the leadership to get along. The leaders of man’s church fight among themselves. Some religions are being torn apart by homosexuality, some by leadership seducing their members. Some by robbing their members using their name it and claim it-ideas. They think they will find happiness in Heaven with that money. They think they are so clever, so great. Some will never see the writing on the wall until the devil is choking them to the point their eyes pop out and their tongue hangs out with the breath of money in their mouths. What a lot these pastors! What a lot! They believe they are above everything because they say the name of Jesus and they won’t be judged. So be it! So be it!
What an awaking they will have when they see the Lord coming in the clouds. The bad part about it is their large followings of people that number into the thousands, will fall into the pit with these charismatic pastors that are so blind, so deaf. The Bible states it: “The blind leading the blind”. These people, these poor people seeking man instead of seeking Jesus Christ of Nazareth, placing man on the throne, instead of humbling themselves before the feet of the Lord Jesus Christ of Nazareth, they support these mega-churches that are deaf, blind and dumb, where you have the followers of the True Church starving, barely making it. Man is so dumb, and yet he thinks he is so intelligent.
the paradox of the church.i like algore honesty and for being real as he takes on global warming. he credited it to not bound by the oval office and …fake diplomatic niceties. but of course, there are few who can hold a torch like that man.
if you read the rest of the book of 2cor11 and the book of acts, the leaders were even thrown in prisons. guess who can throw you into prisons? the real message must have been very offensive to evoke such sentences and punishment. not surprising though, their master was violently crucified and they were obviously not spared too. now if the TRUE message wasn’t that offensive to the power that be, they( the power that be) would probably grant licenses for them to operate their karaoke session in fine looking buildings; exchange niceties and home cook food; ignore the collection of public monies for businesses; not bat an eyelid when these leaders enrich themselves. the authorities would have leave them in peace and to their vices i am sure.
peddling ‘self improvement and enrichment’ programs which you can easily find in your local bookstores( minus the name of God) will not get you crucified. speaking the TRUTH, like the people up north, will.
what is the truth of the state of the world affairs?
a commercialized body is useless!
Interesting. I wonder who are the Pharaohs of this age keeping the Lord’s people in bondage? Religious leaders of every religion??
LORD Jesus, apostle Paul, Peter, & other faithful disciples were schooled in Judaism, but later on, preached against their teachers, elders, Pharisees, Sadducees, & synagogue rulers, those self-seeking hypocrites of their time.
Will deliverers rise up in this Laodicean age of complacency or will they rather choose to be fearful & faint when their boat is rocked???
“For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them. ” Acts20
He was a threat to Man’s empire and religions since He was here to establish God’s Kingdom. That was the main reason He, and his disciples, were crucified. You will be hated, stoned and crucified too if you tell christiandom they have been blinded and deceived all these years!
It was unfortunate the above failed to see into the depth of the temptations of Christ. It set the tone of His ministry and offense.
A Tree and Its Fruit:
15″Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.
21″Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ 23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’
Matthew 7
###1857. Prophecy given to Raymond Aguilera 10 November 2006 at 10:45 AM
Pastors, teachers, and leaders with authority in the Body of Christ: The scriptures below are pointed and are in your face. Drop your worldly ways or face the penalties of death. You can fool others but you cannot fool Me. I am not playing a game with you. Take off your mask of fantasy Christianity and teach with the Spirit and reality of God. There is no condemnation for those who are in Christ, but there is death for those who play worldly games with My Word. Stop trying to act like you are some kind of movie star and get real or I will give you the back of My Hand. And if you think I am joking, keep doing what you are doing. Take your sports, worldly music and movie acting out of My Church.
During the end times that are coming up you will need the Power of the Holy Spirit to survive those troubled times. Remember the back of My Hand is there. But if you listen to this Word with the Spirit of God, which is REAL, I will save you pastors, teachers and leaders of this fallen Church. I am sick and tired of listening to your false words with big smiles.
Did you hear Me? Or are you waiting for the back of My Hand? I am in your FACE and I am going to stay there until you change or die. Get on your knees and pray to Me and you better be sincere, because I can read your heart. I Love you all, but I cannot take anymore of your sinful nature. Now proceed and convince Me you have changed in the Spirit of God. Or Die with the devil, your close friend. So be it! So be it! So be it!
From KJB:
Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Now as for My Beloveds who follow Jesus Christ and are filled with the Holy Spirit: If you see your pastor or church leader acting like I have just stated and they do not seem to have changed their ways, give them this Prophecy. Then stand back and say nothing to them. Let your Lord take it from there. There are many pastors and church leaders who are so lost they would not know Jesus Christ if He walked into their church. They are deaf, blind and without the Spirit of God. So be it! So be it! So be it!
I am sorry that some of you seem to have had negative experiences with your leaders and seem intent on citing all sorts of untested prophecies in order to justify your belief that you should turn away from church leaders. The Lord knows who you are.
“Remind the people to be subject to rulers and authorities, to be obedient , to be ready to do whatever is good, to slander no one .. and to show true humility ” (Philemon 3:1-2)
“respect those who hard hard among you, who are over you in the Lord [your spiritual leaders in the church] and who admonish you. . .” (1 Thessalonians 5:12)
Let’s continue to love and pray for our leaders, for God has instituted them there. The highest command is to love. This tests how much we trust God.
Despise not prophesyings. Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. 1 Thessa5
For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them. Acts 20
————–
Take No Offense At My Hand
Take no offense at My Hand. For there is much that you do not yet understand. I reveal My Hand to those who walk with Me, but it is not given to those who do refuse Me. Everything that I do is for My Purpose, and I will reveal those things that I am doing only to those who are truly intimate with Me.
My Secrets are not given lightly, but they do come at a great cost. For the more Truth that comes, the greater the illumination from within, but also the greater the administration of My Spirit within and without that vessel. As My Hand brings more correction and clearer direction, many will stumble and fall, for they truly do not want to walk fully in My Will at all.
I will offend the minds and hearts, so that I can expose all that is not truly set apart. For I will not allow anything to abide within you that is not fully given to Me. Offenses will come, and many will even surface from within, but what will they do? All things within your being must be given fully to Me, in order to fully walk with Me in true union and intimacy.
There can be no room for offenses and for opinions to reside within. You must reckon your will as dead, and yield to My Ministrations within. For I am fashioning you into a strong and fortified vessel that will not waver or fall, even at the slightest squall. But you must continually mark My Words and eat them, and then do them, believing in Me. For I am the Light that shines within, and in front of you, marking the Way.
With every stroke of My Hand, I will remove even more from within. For My Glory has begun to move across your Land, exposing all that is darkened within. Nothing will remain covered and hidden from men, cause My Hand is moving to cleanse the land. I will bring all things to the open, to show that I am merciful, for I do not desire that any perish in their own self made destructions.
From within and from without My House, will My Glory further move out.
From within and from without My House, will My Hand break forth and fully rout.
From within and without My House, will the demons be uncovered and be driven out.
From within and from without My House, will the offenses come and many will drop out.
From within and without out My House, My True Ones will become even more aligned.
Who will you liken Me to be? I will not measure up to you, but you will measure up to Me! My House is to be fashioned for Me, and not for men to take their fleshly liberties!
So, what is Mine, will now become fully known from within and from without, and will be seen even more as fully Mine, as I bring all things into line with My Plumbline. My Angel has indeed measured, and is now making the corrections, but will you submit to My Ministrations?
Woe to those who will be offended with Me, and with the emerging unveiled things coming forth from within My Glory. As I bring the fiery change, I will also rearrange to make room for My Heavenly exchange. My Glory will reveal even greater mysteries still, for as each unveiling occurs, it will cause even greater natural travailing.
With each release I allow, comes even more responsibility. For you are created to walk with Me, but you must do so from within My Glory. You must do so, with full liberality, taking no offense as I illuminate thee. My Glory reveals and it judges all things. From within, and from without will you be changed, as I bring the full change. What I do from within, will affect all that is without. You cannot hold onto anything, nor choose what I will change. But only remain abandoned to Me, as I create all the new around you.
The Fiery Stream has only begun in this new season. Even as the first measure has passed, many have chosen to become as brass. Such is the heart that does not see, for it is offended when proved and exposed by My Glory. Seek Me more than even before, for I come with much more in store.
The earth will increasingly shake, and will in places, even break. But Mine will not be shaken, nor be forsaken. They have learned to abide within My Glory and My Glory has now overtaken. In Me is their true Habitation.
But woe to those who allow offenses to erects spiritual fences that prevent them from walking in Me. Be found fully in Me!
-Susan Cummings
9-05-07
See no evil, hear no evil and speak no evil.
What about DO no evil??
LORD Jesus was not the user friendly pastor, neither did he use user friendly words against false teachers. Whose disciple are you?
Luke14:27 And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.
40 is an interesting number. jesus got hungry after 40 days and night in the desert. now was He hankering for delifrance bread after the fast? not really. most missed the spiritual dimension of the story. jesus was in the desert. the desert depicts a barren and desolate land for its inhabitants. what did he hungered for then? he hungered for righteousness in a place of abject poverty of the soul. he was ready to drink and be filled.
Mat 5:6 Blessed are they which do HUNGER and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.
and along came the tempter to tempt him to turn ‘stones into bread'( can you see what that means?). but that was not good enough. only the heavenly voice can satisfy, only the heavenly voice can give life. Christ became the true prophetic voice who was prepared to take the cup of suffering and pay the price to establish God’s Kingdom.
Mat 5:10 Blessed are they which are PERSECUTED for righteousness’ sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
the righteousness preached in most churches is akin to positive thinking. since Christ is their righteousness, they slowly loses the spirit of contrition or humility and regard critics as “negative” or the devil attacking the finish work of Christ in them.redeemed for ‘prosperity’, they became perfect vehicle for worldliness – at the devil’s terms and conditions of course.
greatly deceived, the righteousness of Christ, which was to be a powerful force for change and against injustices, has been made ineffective.
now looking at the number 40 again, moses too spent 40( in years ) in a hostile environment before he was called to return and to do what?
moses 40 parallel jesus 40 – the turning point of their ministry and confrontation.
today’s institutionalized leadership( especially mega churches) are in danger of TEMPTING God – go and find out what that means.
Mat 23:15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him TWOFOLD more the child of hell than yourselves.
And it came to pass in the fortieth year, in the eleventh month, on the first day of the month, that Moses spake unto the children of Israel, according unto all that the LORD had given him in commandment unto
them. Deu1
they have gone vertical. they gave too much weight to the vertical that the plain got paralyzed. and thus they ignored the one on the left and the one on the right. the partnership was betrayed. the joints broken. but the master is on the plain sitting on his donkey. and a donkey voice will they not hear.
so waves after waves of locusts came devouring their land. and the real tithes were withheld and the heavens closed.
woe unto you inhabitants of whores and pimps. it suits your desire for riches that render your clothes to moth and your laws to rust. you will not concede nor your pride bow till the last of your first born drop to the ground.
I am so glad that Andrew has better things to do than to glorify some of the comments here with counter-comments! 🙂
my brother-in-Christ Andrew is certainly busy with useful activities that bring glory to God rather than unprofitable use of time.
no point giving too much attention to some of the comments here that are unbiblical in citing verses out of context especially if the commentors have a vested motive 🙂
That’s the reason why the way is the narrow way. The flesh will resist the cross. they will not hear because of itching ears.
Their way cost them nothing. They are part of the world.
Joh 15:20 Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is NOT greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.
You will find songs and dance( for a price) in the comfort zone.
MJ 2:
Thanks for your kind words.
And actually I do pay attention to everyone’s comments, but I just listen.
I think that’s becoz I believe everyone’s entitled to their opinions regardless if they are unbiblical or not.
But one should practice responsibility over their opinions by avoiding defamatory remarks or comments without basis where necessary especially in a public domain.
Or else wait kena sue… =P
But of cos, in the discourse of exhanges, ideally there needs to be some kind of conclusion. And again ideally, hopefully everyone would look to the bible and acknowledge it as THE authority and standard/reference point in order to agree in our disagreements.
Mat 5:11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
Mat 23:34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall KILL and CRUCIFY; and some of them shall ye SCOURGE in your synagogues, and persecute them from CITY to CITY:
Luk 11:49 Therefore also said the WISDOM of God, I will send them prophets and apostles, and some of them they shall SLAY and PERSECUTE:
Luk 21:12 But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name’s sake.
Joh 5:16 And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day.
I don’t see your leaders( the prophets, pastors, teachers, priests etc) persecuted or in prison because of THE TRUTH? Now do you?
In fact, they are rather comfortable collecting tithes and offerings and paying themselves well like some ministers; traveling business class for speaking VACATION overseas; living the ‘high life’ whilst their followers struggle to make ends meet etc.
Peddling the word of God for a price when they should have freely given for freely received(anyway, most of their words are useless). But then, selling delusion for a price is good income isn’t it? Similarly, there are plenty of such get rich books or self improvement books written in the same spirit minus the bloody cross of course.
Will those who set up man’s institution walk the talk? Do you see them doing that?
MJ 2,
have you ever read the Word of GOd?
Mat4 JESUS said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
i think the point is: the message is hard hitting and it threatens the way the city(world) is being governed and that’s the reason why the true followers are brought before kings and rulers and even the SYNAGOGUES( religious institutions represented by and in the form of judaism)
the kingdom of God is not the kingdom of this world – according to Jesus.
Joh 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom(political) is NOT of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight( man’s way is through violence / the need to plunder/ rule by fear and threats etc), that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.
Mat 24:11 And MANY false prophets(they have self-proclaimed themselves in religious institutions already) shall rise, and shall deceive many.
Mat 24:12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold(because they embraced the wrong gospel, they produce dead works. they are so dead and useless in the world except to be like them).
Mat 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom(political) shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto ALL nations; and then shall the end come.
this is another hard one. jesus died BECAUSE of your SIN( do you know what THAT SIN is?)….not FOR your sins(rendering the cross powerless) as most have been taught( which makes no sense and caused many to reject the gospel)!
and because of this wrong teaching that permeated christendom, the gentiles, till tis day, hated us FOR THE WRONG REASON! it then leads to conflicts and wars. sad case.
if they know the TRUE GOSPEL, they will embrace it unless they prefer to seek their own gain through injustices.
the gospel is a VERY political book. if you don’t like it, i suggest you or your authorities organize a book(bible) burning session at your nearest CC.
to deny the truth is hypocritical – and that’s according to your bible.
lastly, you can pray until the cow turns blue(no costs to prayers anyway and the best way to avoid the cross) and you are not going to change anything. the true test of a believer is to carry the cross of christ – and it is not something you wear on the neck for vanity!
well said, hear ye.
For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. 2tim4
For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. (2 Tim 4).
See the irony?
How ironic when someone talks about others being wolves in sheep’s clothing and other people having itching ears to hear only what they want to hear , and actually the verse is talking about himself …
Mat 21:37 But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son.
Mat 21:38 But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance.
Mat 21:39 And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him.
Jesus came to save you to support the kingdoms of this world?
He came for His inheritance, a Kingdom not of this world. And who ensured His death?
Follow the money trail. Follow the ‘idol’ trail.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God SITTETH in the TEMPLE of God, shewing himself that he is God.
interesting that you brought up that verse.
what’s that SIN again? and who is that….man( a generic term) that brought deception and destruction to His kingdom, His inheritance?
another hard saying is…Mar 12:17 And Jesus answering said unto them, Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s.
here these is an account of the religious people attempting to trap Him . and the same religious people, greatly deceived, thought that Jesus supported Caesar from the quote above.
far from it. Jesus in fact clearly separated what’s God and what’s Caesar.
so in actual fact, he is saying…embrace not the principalities of this world or their ideologies. return that which belongs to caesar. have nothing to do with him.
Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against POWERS, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness(religious) in high places(today’s modern TEMPLES).
and obviously, that caused Him His life.
incidentally, caesar means ‘son of god’ or ‘deity’ of a great empire.
hmm, i suppose that’s another hard saying? let’s burn the book!
The vineyard, which encompasses all that were written, comes under God’s special domain. God then planted a TOWER in the midst of His vineyard and LEASED(temporary) it out to the husbandman( religious leaders). Guess what they did? Enamored by their particular and specialized ‘dogmas and creeds’, they were foolish enough to ascend the tower( as from the beginning).They are so ‘up there’ that they divided the body of Christ( became sectarian). Eventually, it became the church of greed(laodicea) which specializes in hording money. Devouring monies from widowers. With so much money, they struck commercial deals and created places of worship(HOUSE of their own) fit for CEO or a demigod.
Hag 1:9 Ye looked for much, and, lo, it came to little; and when ye brought it home, I did blow upon it. Why? saith the LORD of hosts. Because of mine house that is WASTE, and ye run every MAN(man of sin) unto his OWN HOUSE.
Hag 1:10 Therefore the heaven over you is stayed from dew, and the earth is stayed from her fruit.
Hag 1:11 And I called for a drought upon the land, and upon the mountains, and upon the corn, and upon the new wine, and upon the oil, and upon that which the ground bringeth forth, and upon men, and upon cattle, and upon all the LABOUR of the hands.
And when God sent His own to rebuke them, their hearts hardened and unrepentant of their SIN, killed even the Son Himself. Yet, they speak of that name as if they knew Him.
Guilty of commercializing Jesus, they preached a self centered gospel typified by the christmas spirit of ‘love and joy’ today.
2Co 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the SERPENT beguiled Eve through his subtilty( the ORIGINAL SIN), so your minds should be corrupted from the SIMPLICITY that is in Christ.
2Co 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth ANOTHER Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another SPIRIT, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him
they are comfortable in ‘foreign territory’ under the rule of great powers. in fact, some have formed commercial alliances to riches. preaching a gospel of ‘love’ for personal conveniences is one of the greatest ruse. for without the shedding of blood, there shall be no remission of SIN?
only one man can occupied the top post. whether it be the RULERS of the darkness of this world OR SPIRITUAL WICKEDNESS in High places, there shall be ONE MAN on top.
as in the days of Jesus, both formed alliances to put Him to death.
oh, the SUBTLETY of evil and wickedness, who can see?
Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except (A MAN) be born again, he cannot SEE the kingdom of God.
They started the story with your damnation. They then said your parents, whom you have never met before, had eaten some kind of apple(the forbidden fruit) which resulted in the entire human race condemned to hell. So to save men from hell, they further tell you God must incarnate Himself and die FOR you.
Consequently, the Son of God became the sacrificial lamb and suffered the humiliation of the cross against His will. Because He had no sin, He was deemed to be the only worthy candidate For your heinous crime so you can enjoy bliss in heaven. Upon accepting this message, it also gives you the inalienable right to Christ’s righteousness. God then becomes blind to your sins( at this point, they can’t seem to make up their mind really) because He sees only Christ in you or you in Christ.
Grateful to escape the roasting abyss, the adherents to this great message of hope faithfully gathered themselves every Sunday to listen to a man reminding them not to be ingrates. To proof they are no ingrates, they even willingly offered to freely donate 10% of their monthly wages( minimum) for the man to fulfill his noblest mission to save human kind from hell. Apart from that, the inducted will even oblige themselves to serve in the man’s house, most of the time without wages, as ushers, singers, cleaners, recruiters, teachers, fund(tax) collectors and bear with all his Sunday sermons transfixed at the mesmerizing Christ etc.
Now if the man’s teaching is charming enough, his house will grow. Usually, the growth aligns with the growth of his personal wealth. That’s why the recurring message to ‘save the lost’ is so vital to his mission as it is vital for the man to excite you enough about God’s will to prosper you.
In order to authenticate this glorious message of a distant hope, they occasionally shake and rattle their bodies with their eyes closed, warm tears streaming down and hands raised or swaying. Sometimes, the spirited manifestations get so dramatic, devotees may even be seen floored in spasmodic ecstasy resembling a laughing hyena.
By now, they have been so mentally and emotionally conditioned( hypnotic music helps) to embark on their greatest destiny to reign like God(in Christ of course), just like the man – for a price.
The only thing that seems to stand in their blessed destiny to reign is the devil and his army of invisible demons which rule over cities – or so they tell you. These demonic forces are the real ‘rulers of the darkness of this world’ ( not to be literally interpreted) and the ‘spiritual wickedness in high places’ (not referring to religious leaders). Since these are not literal evils,they are all too happy to battle their imaginary fiends for hours on bended knees or through fasting, dancing, singing and giving more to missions. You see, they figure that if all these ‘germs warfare’ were in the air, they need not face the injustices and corruption rooted in man’s kingdoms. To pray is always better than to carry the cross that may cost them their lives. To be obsessively in love with Jesus is much easier of course.
And oh, if they are not battling demons in the air instead of taking up the cross, they may occasionally indulge in a luxury holiday to Israel and reminisce about their good fortune.
In short, that’s basically the summation of today’s biblical Harlots(fundamentally, they are all the same). The Mother of Harlots is even more intriguing but let’s not spoil the Christmas spirit.
the oldest profession has not changed since the beginning of time. she is found in the beginning of the book, she is found in the middle of the of book and she is found at the end of the book. the only changes you find were in customs, cultures,time and space. the true message has always remain consistent as from the beginning.
so for a price, she will sell herself. for a price, the church of greed will sell her soul to the world.
Heb 12:16 Lest there be any fornicator(spiritual), or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright.
Joh 2:14 And found in the temple those that SOLD oxen and SHEEP and DOVES, and the changers of money sitting:
Joh 2:15 And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers’ money, and overthrew the tables;
Joh 2:16 And said unto them that sold doves(symbol,of the spirit), Take these things hence; make not my Father’s house an house of MERCHANDISE.
we have imported the church of the west. what you see there is full blown aids. what we see here is hiv stage in progress.
since the roots are the same, it’s not surprising how the churches here have developed – completely missing the true message christ!
God loves me, Jesus loves me. How do I know I am so loved? Because my pastor said so. My pastor told me that there is no greater love than for someone willing to die for you when no others can or will. That is the grace of God. Saved by the greatest love of all that nothing matters more in life now than to discover the love of God for ME. Nothing matters more than to dwell in the love of God or surround yourself with the love of Jesus.
In love with love that one can hear nothing, speak nothing and do nothing except talk about how one is in love with Jesus and am loved by Jesus.
So in love with love and the love has turned to love for themselves that they even denounce Joh 12:25 He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.
It looks like the pastors did a great job in keeping the cross away with the love of Jesus.
CNN News – 27/12/07
Believer bitter over ‘prosperity’ preachings
The message flickered into Cindy Fleenor’s living room each night: Be faithful in how you live and how you give, the television preachers said, and God will shower you with material riches.
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Evangelist Benny Hinn, raises his hands in prayer during a service at the Blaisdell Concert Hall in Honolulu, Hawaii, in 2002.
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And so the 53-year-old accountant from the Tampa, Florida, area pledged $500 a year to Joyce Meyer, the evangelist whose frank talk about recovering from childhood sexual abuse was so inspirational. She wrote checks to flamboyant faith healer Benny Hinn and a local preacher-made-good, Paula White.
Only the blessings didn’t come. Fleenor ended up borrowing money from friends and payday loan companies just to buy groceries. At first she believed the explanation given on television: Her faith wasn’t strong enough.
“I wanted to believe God wanted to do something great with me like he was doing with them,” she said. “I’m angry and bitter about it. Right now, I don’t watch anyone on TV hardly.”
All three of the groups Fleenor supported are among six major Christian television ministries under scrutiny by a senator who is asking questions about the evangelists’ lavish spending and possible abuses of their tax-exempt status.
The probe by Sen. Charles Grassley of Iowa, the ranking Republican on the Senate Finance Committee, has brought new scrutiny to the underlying belief that brings in millions of dollars and fills churches from Atlanta to Los Angeles — the “Gospel of Prosperity,” or the notion that God wants to bless the faithful with earthly riches.
All six ministries under investigation preach the prosperity gospel to varying degrees.
Proponents call it a biblically sound message of hope. Others say it is a distortion that makes evangelists rich and preys on the vulnerable. They say it has evolved from “it’s all right to make money” to it’s all right for the pastor to drive a Bentley, live in an oceanside home and travel by private jet.
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* Televangelist refuses to turn over more financial documents
“More and more people are desperate and grasping at straws and want something that will alleviate their pain or financial crisis,” said Michael Palmer, dean of the divinity school at Regent University, founded by Pat Robertson. “It’s a growing problem.”
The modern-day prosperity movement can largely be traced back to evangelist Oral Roberts’ teachings. Roberts’ disciples have spread his theology and vocabulary (Roberts and other evangelists, such as Meyer, call their donors “partners.”) And several popular prosperity preachers, including some now under investigation, have served on the Oral Roberts University board.
Grassley is asking the ministries for financial records on salaries, spending practices, private jets and other perks. The investigation, coupled with a financial scandal at ORU that forced out Roberts’ son and heir, Richard, has some wondering whether the prosperity gospel is facing a day of reckoning.
While few expect the movement to disappear, the scrutiny could force greater financial transparency and oversight in a movement known for secrecy.
Most scholars trace the origins of prosperity theology to E.W. Kenyon, an evangelical pastor from the first half of the 20th century.
But it wasn’t until the postwar era — and a pair of evangelists from Tulsa, Oklahoma — that “health and wealth” theology became a fixture in Pentecostal and charismatic churches.
Oral Roberts and Kenneth Hagin — and later, Kenneth Copeland — trained tens of thousands of evangelists with a message that resonated with an emerging middle class, said David Edwin Harrell Jr., a Roberts biographer. Copeland is among those now being investigated.
“What Oral did was develop a theology that made it OK to prosper,” Harrell said. “He let Pentecostals be faithful to the old-time truths their grandparents embraced and be part of the modern world, where they could have good jobs and make money.”
The teachings took on various names — “Name It and Claim It,” “Word of Faith,” the prosperity gospel.
Prosperity preachers say that it isn’t all about money — that God’s blessings extend to health, relationships and being well-off enough to help others.
They have Bible verses at the ready to make their case. One oft-cited verse, in Paul’s Second Epistle to the Corinthians, reads: “Yet for your sakes he became poor, that you by his poverty might become rich.”
Critics acknowledge the idea that God wants to bless his followers has a Biblical basis, but say prosperity preachers take verses out of context. The prosperity crowd also fails to acknowledge Biblical accounts that show God doesn’t always reward faithful believers, Palmer said.
The Book of Job is a case study in piety unrewarded, and a chapter in the Book of Hebrews includes a litany of believers who were tortured and martyred, Palmer said.
Yet the prosperity gospel continues to draw crowds, particularly lower- and middle-income people who, critics say, have the greatest motivation and the most to lose. The prosperity message is spreading to black churches, attracting elderly people with disposable incomes, and reaching huge churches in Africa and other developing parts of the world.
One of the teaching’s attractions is that it doesn’t dwell on traditional Christian themes of heaven and hell but on answering pressing concerns of the here and now, said Brian McLaren, a liberal evangelical author and pastor.
But the prosperity gospel, McLaren said, not only preys on the hope of the vulnerable, it puts too much emphasis on individual success and happiness.
“We’ve pretty much ignored what the Bible says about systemic injustice,” he said.
The checks and balances central to Christian denominations are largely lacking in prosperity churches. One of the pastors in the Grassley probe, Bishop Eddie Long of suburban Atlanta, has written that God told him to get rid of the “ungodly governmental structure” of a deacon board.
Some ministers hold up their own wealth as evidence that the teaching works. Atlanta-area pastor Creflo Dollar, who is fighting Grassley’s inquiry, owns a Rolls Royce and multimillion-dollar homes and travels in a church-owned Learjet.
In a letter to Grassley, Dollar’s attorney calls the prosperity gospel a “deeply held religious belief” grounded in Scripture and therefore a protected religious freedom. Grassley has said his probe is not about theology.
But even some prosperity gospel critics — like the Rev. Adam Hamilton of 15,000-member United Methodist Church of the Resurrection in suburban Kansas City, Missouri — say that the investigation is entering a minefield.
“How do you determine how much money a minister like this is able to make when the basic theology is that wealth is OK?” said Hamilton, an Oral Roberts graduate who later left the charismatic movement. “That gets into theological questions.”
There is evidence of change. Joyce Meyer Ministries, for one, enacted financial reforms in recent years, including making audited financial statements public.
Meyer, who has promised to cooperate fully with Grassley, issued a statement emphasizing that a prosperity gospel “that solely equates blessing with financial gain is out of balance and could damage a person’s walk with God”
http://www.cnn.com/2007/LIVING/wayoflife/12/27/prosperity.preachers.ap/index.html
It is easy to grow a church. The basic formula for successful church growth often consists of preaching love and ‘blessings’ with a touch of ‘sorcery’.
Firstly, a good dose of Love potion number one. No one can go wrong with love. Even hardcore pagans are drawn to love. This can be achieved through focusing on the grandeur of love without sacrifices – shedding of blood. But to justify the love of money(blessings in disguise) is a bit tricky though. This is best done by highlighting rich kings(solomon for instance) in the old testament. Nevermind that the average person will never be kings, the huge pile of ToTo money awaiting those greedy enough will always form long queues outside theater halls.
Sorcery is the ‘supernatural’ element of faith.The right dose to tickle the flesh can seal that fat cheque in the offering bag. Take ‘healing’ for instance. Even the press won’t dare to risk its credibility to scrutinize it before reporting.
Then thou shalt bring all these elements together and jazz it up with soulful music led by an amateur vocal maestro. Target a young audience with chicks and dudes to raise the temperature in the church hall. They in turn will attract other youths and sometimes, older folks.
Even better if one of your hot senior pastor lusted international stardom singing yo-yo-yo in hot pants. If not, at least sing well enough to cut CDs for community consumption – at a price of course.
Finally, apart from peddling cheap grace( He suffered the cross for your fat bank account), you know the minister has finally arrived if he/she gives himself/herself red hot titles such as ‘ man of god’, ‘prophet’ , ‘reverend doctor *** ‘, ‘apostle’ or ‘rich wolves with big fat egos’ and his/her pictures/big names plastered from cover to cover – what else? for a price!
ps:check your local church bookstores or drugstores. you will find the above authors rather familiar.
Sounds like a “new creation” church which i used to attend which always made us repeat verses “I’m a new creation in Christ” , “God shall supply all your need according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus.” “Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us, etc” like auto-suggestions or positive affirmations. Hypnosis using the Bible verses or positive thinking? Hey, excuse me who is GOD? U decide urself….
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autosuggestion
“But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.” Mat6
A lot of the false preachers of today believe that the human mind and tongue contain a supernatural ability or power. So much so that when a
person speaks expressing his faith in divine laws, his positive thoughts and positive verbal expression allegedly produce a “divine
force” that will heal, produce wealth, bring success, and in other ways influence the environment. So, why pray at all if words have so much
creative force? Faith, according to the false prophets, is not submissive trust in God; Their faith is a “formula” by which to
manipulate the spiritual laws which they believe govern the universe.
They turn faith into a magical formula and words into some kind of abracadabra by which one may “get things from God”. (Jude 4 …..who
turn the grace of our Lord into lasciviousness a strong desire for material things.) But the teaching from this faith serves only to
justify their own lavish lifetyles and materialistic philosophies,while breeding a superstition that their words, when spoken positively,
will determine their fate.
And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.Joshua24.
Hos 4:11 Whoredom and wine and new wine take away the understanding.
Hos 4:18 Their drink is become sour; they play the harlot continually; her rulers dearly love shame.
The doctrine of the Nicolaitans was mentioned in the Apocalypse of John to the churches of Pergamos and Ephesus of the seven churches of Asia in Revelation 2. It is a symbolic name of a party that represents the hierarchy of a ruling class over the rest of the people, developing a PECKING order of FLESHLY leadership. Jesus hates this and warns the people to repent or else “I will come upon you quickly and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.” The same warning illustration is applied to those that ABUSED GRACE, which led to licentiousness from the example of Balaam, seducing Christians to fornication and tampering with idolatry. The individual overcomer is allowed to eat of the hidden manna and given a white stone with a new name written in it.
The root of the word Nicolaitans comes from Greek nikao, to conquer or overcome, and laos, which means people and which the word laity comes from. The two words together especially means the DESTRUCTION of the people and refers to the earliest form of what we call a priestly order or clergy which later on in church history divided people and allowed for leadership other than those led by the spirit of the risen Lord. A good translation of Nicolaitan would be “those who prevail over the people.” This clerical system later developed into the papal hierarchy of priests and clergy lording over the flock. The Council of Trent stated, “If anyone shall say that there is not in the Catholic Church a hierarchy established by the divine ordination, consisting of bishops, presbyters and ministers, let him be anathema.” It is not the question of the ministries but rather in the separation of them into a HIERARCHY over the people. This very idea was taken over by the Protestants with their own corruption of leadership roles and coverings. The Church of Ephesus was commended for hating the deeds of the Nicolaitans. The wrong separation of the clergy from the laity is a great evil in God’s sight and He hates the lust for religious power over others. There is an ungodly spiritual authority in the Church today, which is nothing more than the prideful spirit of control, manipulation, domination and intimidation and a rebellion of the rightful authority of God.
Faithful believers who have put on Christ Jesus, are all God’s laity. Peter exhorted us to
Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not for filthy lucre but of a ready mind. Neither as being lords over God’s heritage but being examples to the flock. And when the chief shepherd shall appear, you shall receive a crown of glory that fades not away.
Shepherds serve the sheep but the wolves that clothe themselves with so-called leadership and spiritual authority serve themselves, thinking that they serve God, in essence, this makes them false christs. Early church leaders were established as overseers, not a ruling hierarchy.
Immediately after John the revelator received the message to the seven churches, a door was opened in Heaven. The very first voice that John heard was as a trumpet talking with him which said, “Come hither and I will show you things, which must be hereafter.” The trumpets will be sounding in these last days and this is the first one. John was given a vision of the very throne room of God, and the true pecking order, and the way in which that authority conducts itself. John is carried in the spirit to this place with the 7 Spirits of God. Round about this throne were 24 seats for 24 elders clothed in white with golden crowns upon their heads. Now we do not know who these elders are or how much power and authority they have, but if anyone has bragging rights for a high ministry they have attained, it would have to be these 24 elders. Every time they hear the 4 living creatures give glory, honor and thanks to God, they fall down prostrate, worship Him and cast their crowns before the throne of God. Now if Jesus said that we should pray “let it be on earth as it is in heaven,” no one has any business at all claiming a position over any other person as it always leads to abuse. God is now demanding that we throw down our crowns and gather around Him. Either we are obedient and the crowns are cast down or the Lord Himself will take them away.
If we want spiritual crowns throughout eternity we must first give up our authority and leadership at the foot of Jesus. In these things we must come out and separate from the Babylonian wolves of the apostasy in sheep’s clothing that will not give up their faded crowns, and become holy if we would not partake of her plagues. This describes the Bride of Christ, not the interlopers and usurpers called godly who would lead you into the MYSTERY of iniquity through fleshly leadership. Jesus wants servants who will defer the authority and care for His sheep. Different people in the church have different gifts and ministries from God, but all are of equal importance to the well being of the body.
There is in the world today a tremendous cry from the people of God, a travail coming forth touching the very heart of God. The shepherds are not leading the sheep into this outpouring so the people are entering in spite of the restraint that the shepherds are trying to put on them. The reason that the “leaders” do not want the Presence of the Lord in the midst of the congregation is that they will have to relinquish their CROWNS. The blind leading the blind have for too long demanded to have praises sung to them. Now is the time that if a man is a prophet he should be saying like Zechariah, “I am NO prophet, rather a tiller of the ground.”
The Lord said to His disciples,
You know that they which are accounted to rule over the Gentiles exercise lordship over them and their great ones exercise authority upon them. But so shall it not be among you but whosoever will be great among you shall be your minister. And whosoever of you will be the chiefest shall be servant of all. For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto but to minister and to give His life a ransom for many.
Christendom would have us believe that wrestling ‘flesh and blood’ means we are not fighting against people but are battling some figment of man’s imagination that inhabits the air. Because they were so dense or blind, they drastically reduced the power of that verse for change.
‘Flesh and blood’ basically refer to the natural state of one’s humanity which is not the real source of problem. The manipulation, downward pressures, corruption and control come from imperialistic rule – both religious and worldly. And thus, the weapons of warfare against evil and wickedness that follow are ideological and requires courage and resoluteness – not babbling some long prayers in the comfort of your little closet or church hall and thereafter visit your nearest Macdonald. Only those averse to the cross do that!
The litmus test to whether you belong to the true church of God or not is to pull the plug on the leader. If you think your church attendance will drastically drop in the absence of your revered leader , you know the real reason to what’s holding your church together. This should be a fair indication as is often true , that the charismatic leadership holds the false church together – not the infallible heavenly message deeply rooted in the hearts of those who have found the narrow path.
A one man rule is an affront to God and His rule. Even if your church still stands in the absence of your charismatic leader, the church only passed the first round of tests.
The other crucial test is the correct interpretation of the cross of Christ. No true church of God will deny bearing the cross of Christ. However, the cross is not some personal sacrifices in service to your leader and his church. The true cross elicits persecution in the world. If you have been comfortable in the world or the teachings help you to fit into the world and benefit from it, you know you are in the wrong church.
The living church of God is beyond the confusion of the four walls of a financially organized concrete body that is divisively scattered all over the world. You have to be completely out of tune to be intune to even come close to being part of the living church!
So it has been said…..
i hear you.
Mat 12:24 But when the Pharisees(religious leaders) heard it, they said, This man doth not cast out demons, but by Beelzebub the prince of the demons.
Mat 12:25 And knowing their thoughts he said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:
Mat 12:26 and if Satan casteth out Satan, he is divided against himself; how then shall his kingdom stand( the division is under sin rule)?
Mat 12:27 And if I by Beelzebub cast out demons, by whom do your sons cast them out? therefore shall they be your judges.
Mat 12:28 But if I by the Spirit of God cast out demons, then is the kingdom of God come upon you.
Mat 12:29 Or how can one enter into the HOUSE of the strong man( the man of sin), and spoil his goods(WEALTH), except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.
Mat 12:30 He that is not with me is against me, and he that gathereth not with me scattereth.
Mat 12:42 The queen of the south( the bride) shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for she came from the ends of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and behold, a greater than Solomon is here.
Mat 12:43 But the unclean spirit, when he is gone out of the man, passeth through waterless places(lifeless), seeking rest, and findeth it not.
Mat 12:44 Then he saith, I will return into my HOUSE whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.
Mat 12:45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more evil than himself( number seven is associated with the church – the book of revelation – and also associated with redemption – true and false), and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man becometh worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this evil generation.
Mar 16:9 Now when he was risen early on the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene( the whore), from whom he had cast out SEVEN demons.
you know, someone is saying, your house is under fire. you can say, it is either true or it is not. but definitely, you can’t ignore it and put it down as an…opinion.
the truth is the truth, whether you like it or not.
Who can hear? Rather, no one wants to hear about the painful cross.
Do they return to Caesar which belongs to Caesar. Not really. Instead, the churches have embraced Caesar’s ways in the love for glory and money serving in Caesar’s institutions etc. They have sent their flocks to the slaughter house serving SIN with their teachings on prosperity and grace.
They have conveniently forgotten what Jesus had said:
Joh 8:23 He said to them, “You are from below, I am from above. You are of this world, but I am NOT of this world.
Mar 8:33 But turning and looking at his disciples, Jesus rebuked Peter, saying, “Get behind me, Satan! For you are not thinking God’s thoughts but HUMAN thoughts!”
Mar 8:34 Then Jesus called the crowd to himself along with his disciples and said to them, “If anyone wants to follow me, he must deny himself, pick up his CROSS(severing your ways with the world), and follow me continually.
Mar 8:35 For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake and for the gospel will save it.
Mar 8:36 For what profit will a person have if he gains the whole world( it is talking about the love of the world) and forfeits his life?
Mar 8:37 Indeed, what can a person give in exchange for his life?
Mar 8:38 If anyone is ashamed of me and my words in this ADULTEROUS and SINFUL generation(committing adultery with the world through Mammon), the Son of Man will be ashamed of him when he comes with the holy angels in his Father’s glory.”
Are the institutionalized temples of man( denominational churches and non denominational churches born out of the Mother of harlots) and their flocks committing adultery and living in sin?
An emphatic YES – according to the bible.
So I say too, burn the bible if it’s all crap!
Tsk tsk tsk…The sinful and immoral living of the leaders
I still prefer the simple message on grace:)
First and foremost, the message of the true gospel is about the big world that we are living in more so than the little world you are living in
That’s why jesus said, seek ye FIRST the kingdom of God and whatever that concerns your life will be taken care of.
In other words, if you don’t get your politics right, the people’s life will be screwed!
And politics involves economics. Economics is about the rule of money. The bible stand on this issue is clear. The love of money is the root of ALL evil. Wealth must be shared. But when wealth is focused in the hands of the minority or is allowed, through free enterprisation, to be accumulated in the hands of a powerful few, all kinds of evil such as envy, covetousness, greed, murder, slander, lusts,injustices etc will surface.
Having said that, we all know the leading proponent of the rule of money through the rule of law is in imperialism.
But the kingdom of God is against ‘caesar’s rule’.
So how is it that God’s people are supporting caesar’s rule?
Instead of leading the people to the new and living way and declaring the kingdom of God is at hand, the churches sold themselves to the world for a price! And thus the people are oppressed, blinded, deaf, lame and possessed!
So in actual fact, we have a case of the blind leading the blind.
To rectify this, we truly need to seek God’s kingdom FIRST and His righteousness( against injustices) and not that kind of worthless and misleading righteousness which reside in the head or mind that the evangelicals are preaching if we are to see men and women freed from bondage of being servants to SIN!
And as for the rests of your problems, it will fall into place as we live and work within the establish kingdom of God …. at hand!
Among the 3 biggest churches that i had attended in sg over a decade, the attendences dropped significantly for 2 of them whenever the senior rabbi is out of town, but for the 3rd, since all the cell members have to sit together, it’s not so apparent.
And a friend remarked that some pp stopped attending in his small church recently after the rabbi fell sick.
Rem folks, dont be like me, i used to attend churches just becoz i idolized certain charistmatic rabbis who can preach so eloquently, sing so sweetly, & persuade so convincingly.
This is what the LORD says: “Cursed is the one who trusts in man, who depends on flesh for his strength and whose heart turns away from the LORD.” Jer17
the golden compass is an interesting film. the child was able to read into the symbolism. no wonder the church felt threatened.
someone said, if you want to meet the devil himself, go to church!
now that will get you crucified!
oh, the irony.
Mat 11:25 At that time Jesus said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from wise and intelligent people and have revealed them to infants
Joh 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your Law, “I said, You are gods?”
Psa 82:1 A Psalm of Asaph. God stands in the CONGREGATION of the MIGHTY; in the MIDST of the gods He judges.
Psa 82:2 How long will you judge unjustly and lift up the FACES of the WICKED? Selah.
Psa 82:3 Defend the poor and fatherless; do justice to the afflicted and needy.
Psa 82:4 Deliver the poor and needy; save them out of the hand of the WICKED.
Psa 82:5 They neither know nor will understand; they walk on in darkness; all the foundations of the earth are shaken.
Psa 82:6 I have said, You are gods; and all of you sons of the Most High.
Psa 82:7 But you shall die like men, and fall like one of the PRINCES.
Psa 82:8 Arise, O God, judge the earth; for You shall inherit in all nations.
Exo 20:3 Thou shalt have NO other gods before me.
Exo 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
Exo 20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor SERVE them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the FATHERS upon the children unto the THIRD and FOURTH generation of them that hate me;
Exo 23:13 And in all things that I have said unto you be circumspect: and make no mention of the name of other gods, neither let it be heard out of thy mouth.
Deu 5:6 I am Jehovah your God who brought you out of the land of Egypt, from the HOUSE of bondage.
Deu 5:7 You shall have no other gods besides Me.
Jdg 10:13 Yet ye have forsaken me, and SERVED other gods: wherefore I will deliver you no more.
Jer 25:6 And do not go after other gods to SERVE them, and to worship them, and do not provoke Me to anger with the works of your hands; and I will do you no harm.
Mat 4:5 Then the devil took him to the Holy City and had him stand on the HIGHEST point of the temple.
Mat 4:7 Jesus said to him, “It is also written, ‘You must not tempt the Lord your God.'”
Within the kingdom, there are many temples. The general order of the temples have not changed much since the beginning. However, the modern temples of today are more ‘sophisticated’ and even hip. In these temples, the masses are often greeted with chirpy music leading to a karaoke session. If they feel elated after a song or two, they may just drop some money in the bags for the gods.The anointed(like earthly kings) gods would then pronounce a series of authoritative words to grace itching ears. One such gods even rules an entire city. However,most other gods settle for CEO pay. Some are so well paid, they even own jet planes and mansions. But whether they operate like kings or not, they all share similar doctrines at least, fundamentally.
Worshipers claim these gods are servants. But do you know of any house servants paid like and operate like kings?
The kind of ‘kings’ I know have been put to Death!
“End of the day, it is not about who’s right or wrong (though we believe in one Truth) but it is about God and winning people over to Him by washing people’s feet and not “bible bashing”, just as Jesus did.”
Not only you contradicted yourself, but Jesus did quite a bit of ‘bashing’.
Rev 3:15 ‘I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were cold or hot.
Rev 3:16 Since you are lukewarm and neither hot nor cold, I am going to spit you out of my mouth – worthless words.
That’s to the members of the ‘rich church’ – Laodicea – so your statement was expected.
watchman:
I apologise if my statement appeared contadictory, but let me further elaborate.
Bible bashing in my terms do not refer to us using the truth in a condescending/self righteous manner. Nor does it condemn others.
Jesus “bible bashing” as you pointed out was correcting us out of LOVE.
As He points those sins of ours, He also administers HOPE and a solution for us to change. That’s what really motivates ppl to change and walk in truth cos He believes in us even when everyone around us might condemn us thru their “humanistic lens”.
And I am an addicted recipient of that kind of bashing from Him =p
That’s a big difference from man’s bible bashing where we mostly talk and criticise with no action of love to accompany the truth.
Lastly, I have included the rest of the scripture which you didn’t present which would have provided a complete view of Jesus kind of bible bashing.
See especially v19-21
17You say, ‘I am rich; I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing.’ But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked.
18I counsel you to buy from me gold refined in the fire, so you can become rich; and white clothes to wear, so you can cover your shameful nakedness; and salve to put on your eyes, so you can see.
19Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest, and repent.
20Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with him, and he with me.
21To him who overcomes, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I overcame and sat down with my Father on his throne.
22He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.”
I hope this clarifies 🙂
Please elaborate on V17,v18 and v19.
Joh 2:14 And found in the temple those that sold oxen and sheep and doves, and the changers of money sitting:
Joh 2:15 And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers’ money, and overthrew the tables;
Joh 2:16 And said unto them that sold doves, Take these things hence; make not my Father’s house an house of merchandise.
Why did Jesus do that? Are you going to tell us Jesus wasn’t rude and somehow ‘violent’ to have overthrew the tables?
“Bible bashing in my terms do not refer to us using the truth in a condescending/self righteous manner. Nor does it condemn others.”
It shows you do not know your scriptures or am blind.
Mat 3:7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of VIPERS, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come? – from John the Baptist.
Mat 23:33 You snakes, you children of serpents! How can you escape being condemned to hell? – from Jesus
Mat 23:13 “How terrible it will be for you, scribes and Pharisees, you HYPOCRITES! You shut the door to the kingdom of heaven in people’s faces. You don’t go in yourselves, and you don’t allow those who are trying to enter to go in.
There are many many of such snipe remarks directed at leaders in both the OT and NT.
Blind to it?
Mat 15:14 Let them alone. They are blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.
Can’t blame you?
And what solution are you looking for? His solution is to take up the cross. Why don’t you preach the cross like He did?
i don’t think he understand the meaning of ‘lukewarm’.
the rich ruler always play the ‘swiss’ gambit. a kind of ‘godliness’ or ‘whiteness’ for personal gain or a certain aversion towards ‘nails’.
The king who played the ‘swiss gambit’ is also known for legal suppression or using ‘moses laws’.
Fearfully and awkwardly ‘polite’?
more like a dignified betrayal. the judas kind.
The king will always have the support of ‘obedient’ and ‘good natured’ servants even though they’re being paid thirty silvers.
But it’s rude to call it dirty.
Thirty is fine.
“And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,
In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.” 2 Tim2
xxxxx xxxxxxx is nothing but a materialistic church that over emphasises on tithing and material gains. The prosperity gospel is heretical and must be stopped!
*Comments edited by moderator
There is a certain stench about this ‘civility’ that generally comes from the top of the corporate world and permeates the entire city. Give me the loutishness of an honest hawker anytime. At least, I know where the person is coming from rather than someone who hides behind his/her mask of ‘civility’ and stabs you from the back!
Remember, the worse crime against humanity are often committed by civilized white collar professionals/ministers since these are most likely to rise to power or the abuse of power and position.
Some people are just simply too dense to understand that the harshness of the sacred words are mostly directed at ministers and rulers – not your ordinary nobodies.
Goes to show, even temple ministers want to eat their cake and have their followers wipe their mouths or backside from time to time just like the world.
Folks, the prosperity gospel is heretic but it wont be stopped. Those who are greedy, let them be.
But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived. 2Tim3
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Tithing is Unscriptural Under the New Covenant-Fraudulent Fleecing of the Flock
[1] Gen. 14:20, “And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he [Abram] gave him [Melchizedek king of Salem, the priest of the most high God, Ver. 18] TITHES of all [all the goods of war, Ver. 16].”
[2] Heb. 7:1-10, “For this Melchizedek, king of Salem, priest of God Most High, who meets with Abraham returning from the combat with the kings and blesses him, to whom Abraham parts a TITHE also, from all… Now, behold how eminent this one is to whom the patriarch Abraham gives a TITHE also of the best of the booty. And, indeed, those of the sons of Levi who obtain the priestly office have a direction to take TITHES from the people according to the law… And here, indeed, dying men are obtaining TITHES… And so, to say, through Abraham, Levi also, who is obtaining the TITHES, has been TITHED, for he was still in the loins of his father when Melchizedek meets with him.”
There are a number of things we can learn concerning tithing from this section of Scriptures. In this account, the first mention of tithing in the Bible, Abram gives to Melchizedek (a priest of God who was also the king of the city of Salem) a tithe of the best of the booty taken in war. Notice that this was not wheat, corn, wine, oil, or cattle from Abram’s personal possessions, but rather booty taken from conquered nations.
There is nothing stated here that would cause us to conclude that Abram (later changed to Abraham) ever tithed on a regular basis on his own person possessions. Although Abraham gave Melchizedek a tithe of the booty of war, he told the king of Sodom that he would take none of it for himself.
In this same account recorded in the seventh chapter of Hebrews, we learn that the priests of Levi, from the family of Aaron (although far inferior to the priestly order of Melchizedek) also receive tithes from the people according to the law.
This tells us little more about the actual tithes other than they received tithes. What Christian scholars claim about these verses is that Abraham’s tithing the spoils of war, predated the Law of Moses, and therefore even if the Law of Moses is done away with, tithing is still binding on Christians because Abraham predated the Law of Moses. Is this true?
Christendom teaches that this Scripture is the first proof from the Word of God that we Christians are to tithe ten percent of our salaries to the church. But what have we really learned from these Scriptures:
Abraham went to war on behalf of Sodom (SODOM, mind you), to rescue his nephew, Lot. He then gave 10% of these spoils of war to Melchizedek, and allowed Sodom to keep 90%, while he himself kept NOTHING!
Now then, is there a Scholar alive anywhere on earth today that can explain to us how this one single unparalleled and never-again-to-be-duplicated event, is Scriptural proof that Christians should give 10% of their annual salaries (not the spoils of ware, but their money, their salaries), not once, but year after year after year, not to Melchizedek, but to Clergymen who claim to be ministers of Jesus Christ?
i heard CEOs and celebrities have special access into the synagogue whilst the lesser followers have to queue.
and i thought the order of importance was reversed in the kingdom
i must remember fame and money talks in such places as do godly prosperity.
Pro 23:1 When thou sittest to eat with a ruler( the man of sin), consider diligently what is before thee: Pro 23:2 And put a knife to thy throat, if thou be a man given to appetite(led by your flesh). Pro 23:3 Be not desirous of his dainties: for they are deceitful meat( wisdom). Pro 28:11 The rich man is wise in his own conceit; But the poor that hath understanding searcheth him out. Jam 2:6 But ye have despised the poor. Do not rich men oppress you, and draw you before the judgment seats?(abused the laws)? Mic 6:12 For the rich men thereof are full of violence(legal brutality), and the inhabitants thereof have spoken lies, and their tongue is deceitful in their mouth.Pro 23:4 Labour NOT to be rich: cease from thine own wisdom. Pro 22:16 He that oppresseth the poor to increase his gain(take advantage of the poor), And he that giveth to the rich(supported the rich), shall come only to want.
Mat 19:23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.Luk 6:24 But woe unto you that are rich! for ye have received your consolation. 1Ti 6:9 But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition. Jam 1:11 For the sun is no sooner risen with a burning heat, but it withereth the grass, and the flower thereof falleth, and the grace of the fashion of it perisheth: so also shall the rich man fade away in his ways.
Luk 18:22 Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me. Luk 18:23 And when he heard this, he was very sorrowful: for he was very rich. Jam 5:1 Go to now, ye rich men, weep and howl for your miseries that shall come upon you.
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
Mat 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.
2Pe 2:1 Now there were false prophets among the people, just as there also will be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies and even deny the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction on themselves.
2Pe 2:2 Many people will follow their immoral ways, and because of them the way of truth will be maligned.
2Pe 2:3 In their GREED they will EXPLOIT you with deceptive words. The ancient verdict against them is still in force, and their destruction is not asleep.
first, they are prominent in the community because they have openly declared themselves as such and have garnered reasonable following – not your nobodies.
second, you can identify them with these key words above – greed and exploit.
2Pe 2:15 who have forsaken the right way and have gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Beor, who loved the WAGES of UNRIGHTEOUSNESS.
money talks and talk BIG in these churches!!!
What do you see on the coin? The image or the IDENTITY of the man?
They even deliver you to the doorsteps of Caesar!
easy money for preachers now a days. talk their way to riches and their followers work their butts off. i walk into any bookshops now a days, i read similar things except, they don’t use the name of god in vain most of the time.
> andrewong2024 on May 24, 2008
>Some encouraging news- >http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/singaporelocalnews/view/349750/1/.html
“Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven.
Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth:That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly.” Mat 6
–Anonymous man gave $300k
http://www.straitstimes.com/print/Free/Story/STIStory_240887.html
Dear Andrew,
Your reference to the Free Community Church is harsh as they have not done anything other than welcoming gay people that CHC and NCC and the Methodist church has rejected. They wanted to be left alone to worship God and we should respect that and not be judgemental.
The following is my take on the emerging threats:-
– Religious Fundamentalism, legalism and Pride (eg Pharisees)
– Religious Idol Worship (inclusive of self and money, worship Pope, Saints, Mary)
– Temptation (by the Evil One?)- for power, wealth, as Jesus was also tempted. Prosperity theology comes in here.
Bashing up gays is a temptation… for it impacts the church by reducing our moral credibility.
It is not an emergent threat rather, it has always been there.
The Solution is “Grace”.
Take care and God bless.
Gentle Lamb
Gentle Lamb:
Hi,
I’ve nothing against homosexuals or LBGTs. If you read my later posts, you will know my stand such as:
1. https://andrew-ong.com/2009/05/18/bridging-the-differences/
2. https://andrew-ong.com/2009/05/11/be-aware-where-is-the-church/
Cheers.